Curse

Daesu · Apr 28, 2009, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte the Harlot

Pugging is a lot of fun but its only a matter of time before people realize zcoins really aren't that useful. 90 z coins (the usual mission reward) is about 600g for raisu its decent 12-15 mins for that + the gold but for THK its pretty terrible. Some of the bounties are just terrible 35 coins is a little over 200g worth for the maxine/harn its bad the most recent kourna one still wasn't good. Considering the only interesting reward that you couldn't get much more easily by doing something more profitable is the equip pack I think they should probably add some more interesting rewards or increase the number of coins.

Yes, 80 copper coins only gives you a superior ID kit, which costs 500g from the merchant so essentially, you get alittle over 560g for THK HM Bonus but you also get the 1k gold reward for a total of 1560g for THK HM Bonus.

I suspect it is only a matter of time before the interest in the z-quests run out of steam.

1. There is no need to buy so many elite armor for the HoM anymore since transference to GW2 is going to be account based. This means the demand for storage is lower than before.
2. Doing the z-quests is repeating grind on all your characters.
3. Since they happen everyday, people will start to pick and keep only the ones they like. The ones that are too troublesome and lower rewards will be abandoned.

distilledwill · Apr 28, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

What I like about the zquests is that I'm getting half-decent teams for HM missions which I would have done in a while anyway, but now they seem to be at least half-reliable. I've pugged every mission/bounty so far and I only failed THK (cus one monk left, made it to the final mob - including bonus mobs!).

refer · Apr 28, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

I've been doing PUGs ever since January when I started. PUGs still exist and not the kind overstuffed with heros. I think you just need to be on at the right time.

draxynnic · Apr 28, 2009, 12:30 PM // 12:30

My experience so far has been just as bad as 2005 - all the groups want Monks first and Mesmers last. Guess what profession my primary is? (And until the coins can go into storage to be consolidated, that's the only character I'm doing'em with. The prospect of gaining extra storage doesn't enthuse me much if I'm forfeiting 20 slots in the meantime...)

I'd probably have more luck if I could play during peak times, but being in Australia, that's only possible on weekends if at all.

In the meantime... the AI doesn't care if you're a Mesmer.

vaxmor · Apr 28, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewa Kirch

. . .almost felt like the orginal game again with PUGS forming in a mission outpost!

And thats the crux of it right there.

glacialphoenix · Apr 28, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

My experience so far has been just as bad as 2005 - all the groups want Monks first and Mesmers last.

*sympathy

But I think in general those of us who play monks have an easier time finding groups... it's like, whenever I enter an outpost, there just aren't enough monks compared to the number of other professions going LFG. I haven't seen many mesmers around in general, though I did have one in a PUG who cheerily inted almost everything we came across. Pretty awesome.

Burst Cancel · Apr 29, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I suspect that some quests will fail to rouse interest because the rewards are not commensurate to the time investment. Since we are only allowed 3 quests of each type at a time, and given that some (many?) people may not be able to complete every quest each day, the quests with unbalanced effort:reward ratios will naturally be dropped in favor of those with higher ratios.

This is something Anet could easily address, of course, but the value they've placed on some of the quests so far does not fill me with confidence.

Improvavel · Apr 29, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I guess having to h/h for a couple of years, relying on your own ability increased the overall skill of the community.

Human teams are simply faster then H/H.

cthulhu reborn · Apr 29, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I guess having to h/h for a couple of years, relying on your own ability increased the overall skill of the community.

Human teams are simply faster then H/H.

That would be a generalisation. A more correct version would be:

A human team with decent to good players is faster than H/H.

Along with that:

A human team with one or more idiots (of which there are plenty) often means failure or a really long session. Do I need to mention overaggroing, overextending and total fail builds?

And before you go off on people having to be allowed to have their own builds, I will give you an example of what I call a fail build. This is an actual build of a warrior/necro I played with. He was level 20 and a Prophecies character going through Cantha:

[Sever Artery][Dolyak Signet][Animate Bone Horror][Healing Signet][Life Siphon][Vampiric Gaze][Blood Of The Master][Sprint]

He had 20 energy. Nuff said.

The problem with PUGs is that you don't know what you're going to get. One idiot can ruin a mission by overaggroing or doing things that cause the mission or bonus to fail (eg. killing the flame bearers too soon).

All you need really is one friend who is a decent or better player and you can go out together with 6 hero's. Very few human teams will beat the 2+6 combo. It's a simple fact that henchies still rate higher than poorly used/equipped heroes and idiot players.

Specifically in NM there isn't a mission you can't H/H without much trouble. I remember last week me and my wife did the Sunjiang District Mission with 4 heroes and 2 henchies. The heroes weren't even fully decked out as they were new characters. We did masters in 11 minutes. You tell me why I would go for a full human party with the real possibility of getting someone who can singlehandedly mess everything up for the rest?

Esan · Apr 29, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

[T]heAI doesn't care if you're a Mesmer.

Neither should anyone else. A mesmer can front a discordway group just as well as anyone. Better than most, perhaps, because they have nice AoE hexes.

Shadowmere · Apr 29, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

I was very happy to PUG the Z-missions just for fun and to remember the old days...

Until... Rragar's!

Failed at least 5 times last night, including 2 groups that broke up well into level 2 when someone would complain that the dungeon was taking too long and that it wasn't worth it for some Z coins! This is after an hour-plus each time (pugs are slow).

Typical conversation went like this:

Player 1: Are we almost done? I gotta go soon
Player 2: How soon?
Player 3: We're about halfway.
Player 1: That's BS just to kill a guy
Player 3: First time in a dungeon?
Player 1: No, 175th time, but I only do Slaver's
Player 1: Forget this, not worth it
<Player 1 has left the game>
Player 2: We can still do this
<Player 3 has left the game>
<Player 4 has left the game>
<Player 5 has left the game>
<Player 6 has left the game>
<Player 7 has left the game>
<Player 8 has left the game>

pretty much the same as the PuGs I've gotten so far...everything starts well everyone's pretty polite and the overall team looks decent to good but once we get going somone starts complaing, randomly quits, or gets d/c then suddenly it's like a cascade is set of others start saying "we've got no chance! resign!" ect. And before I know it it's me alone in a HM mission/area...

Schmerdro · Apr 29, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

The Zaishen quests are great for getting some PuG's do the the easy content in GW. But for the more challenging stuff, h/h or guildies are still the way to get things done.

I think the only way that this Zaishen thing has been successful is in bringing back some PvE veterans. Unfortunately, a lot of PvE noobs came as well, so the veterans might go back to h/h or guidies when their patience runs out.

Good try A-Net, now remove the hero cap >_>

Improvavel · Apr 29, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

That would be a generalisation. A more correct version would be:

A human team with decent to good players is faster than H/H.

Along with that:

A human team with one or more idiots (of which there are plenty) often means failure or a really long session. Do I need to mention overaggroing, overextending and total fail builds?

Idiots and noob idiots (not players that are new and can take advise) aren't exactly part of a team - they are parasites, relying on others people work.

When you have a Team that means players that know what they are doing.

Those teams are simply faster.

Commander Kanen · Apr 29, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I have been doing all HM with by guild or with h/h. Obviously its faster with real people but quite easy going with hench (exept for the Veil quest thats nasty as it is)

As it is posslibe to do with heroes/hench why not just raise the hero cap to 7. then you dont have to pug unless you suck.

Sanzath · Apr 30, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shemsu Anpw

Should be great till they ask people to do Slavers Exile in HM PuG LOL. or DoA PuG for Zquest......

Your wish has come true! But I'm guessing most people are staying away from the stygian lord bounty. Those who will actually try it are either really inexperienced with DoA (as in have no idea how hard it can possibly be), or really experienced.

As for the update in general, I have mostly been H/Hing or doing them with guildies, but I guess I should try to PuG just to see what'll happen, and maybe get a laugh or two from the builds people are running.

draxynnic · Apr 30, 2009, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Neither should anyone else. A mesmer can front a discordway group just as well as anyone. Better than most, perhaps, because they have nice AoE hexes.

Preaching to the converted. I personally think they're probably the best at abusing overpowered PvE skills, too.

Anyway, second try: Ring of Fire hardmode, mission and bonus.

Six of us were really good.

The reason I know this was that we managed to complete this despite effectively having no healing. Tahlkora... did her best, but was set for prot (ie not helping much at the seals) and was on 60% DP by the time we got to the gate. The "human" monk... was either a poorly set up bot, or a moron. I think the prize screwup was it repeatedly trying to use Healing Breeze on characters trying to take down Ether Seals...

lg5000 · Apr 30, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Can we have henchies in the elite areas yet? I'm currently getting frustrated with the lack of people who actually want to play together. You'd think that by the time you hit DoA, you don't need to advertise yourself as 'experienced' and that communciation is a bit better than people randomly quitting.

Other than that, I'm enjoying the quests

Though, usually, due to all sorts of time restraints/playing the wrong class, h/h is prefered.

Red Sonya · Apr 30, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

I take my trusted hero builds as no group of human PUG players are as good and fast and focused as my heroes and henchies. I've run all the zmissions so far with heroes/henchies and will continue as that for me is the fastest and least frustrating way to play. Having all casters prevents overpulls as well that some stupid human wammo would do if I Pugged.

Ate of DK · Apr 30, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

99% of the PuG's is EPIC FAIL.

Especially when they all need baby-mode skills and consumables to get something done in the first place.

Nightfall destroyed the MMO part of GuildWars by adding heroes.
And by adding heroes they killed the need for some people to improve at playing this game. Because with PvX-wiki builds on your heroes you don't even have to push a skill yourself. Everything will be done for you.

Longasc · Apr 30, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

And by adding heroes they killed the need for some people to improve at playing this game. Because with PvX-wiki builds on your heroes you don't even have to push a skill yourself. Everything will be done for you.

Yep, Heroes are both a curse and a blessing. I did some missions by just walking through, not targetting for the heroes or attacking myself. So much about that, you are absolutely right.

But on the other hand forced grouping was one of the things people loathed in MMOs for a long time. And one of the most successful MMOs, WoW, is actually a single player game except the dungeon and raid parts.

Heroes allow us to go out all alone or with a friend. Or to avoid having to play with PUGs. This is not bad.

On the other hand, it destroyed some aspects of playing a MMO, playing together. It even encourages going with Heroes, as they are often better than a PUG of strangers.

It seems ANet is going to reduce the impact of Heroes in GW2, so I doubt we are going to see 7 Heroes in GW1. I could rather imagine none or only 1 in GW2.

But well, we will see. They are not talking at all about GW2 right now, except the usual hype and drivel. It is great, but nobody can say what exactly is great about GW2.